Andy Cohen on Bravo, 'Summer House' Reunion, Real Housewives at 20

Andy Cohen hosts Bravo’s five-nights-a-week late-night talk show, “Watch What Happens Live,” and a four-day-a-week show on Radio Andy, his SiriusXM channel. He’s an executive producer of the “Real Housewives” franchise, which celebrated its 20th anniversary in March — an achievement that Bravo continues to tout, assembling 60ish Housewives for “The Real Housewives Ultimate Girls Trip: Roaring 20th,” premiering in August.

Cohen began his career as an intern at CBS News, where he then worked for a decade as a producer. In 2004, he became a programming executive at Bravo, where he eventually began appearing as on-air talent, hosting “The Real Housewives” reunions, which created a now much-copied format — and also changed Cohen’s career. Ten years after joining the network, he transitioned from his executive role to focus on “WWHL,” as well as producing.

On June 5, Variety celebrated Cohen’s many achievements, honoring him with the Creative Impact in Television Award at the Newport Beach Television Festival, where I interviewed him in front of a raucous, vocal crowd of fans at the Lido Theater. Vicki Gunvalson — an original cast member of “The Real Housewives of Orange County,” who is returning for Season 20 — presented Cohen with the award, as fellow “OC” cast members Emily Simpson, Gina Kirschenheiter, Jenn Pedranti and Tamra Judge cheered from the audience.

“I don’t have a typical day, which is one of the things I love about my life,” Cohen said that night when asked about his many duties. “But I will say I was a producer at CBS News for 10 years, and I am an incredibly deadline-oriented person. So if someone gives me a deadline and says, ‘You have to do this, write this, record this, whatever by this day,’ then I will do it.”

The conversation began with questions about “Summer House,” a top-of-mind subject for every Bravoholic in recent months, after castmates West Wilson and Amanda Batula confirmed in a March 31 Instagram post that they’re dating. Three weeks later, Cohen had the difficult task of grilling Wilson and Batula about what happened between them and when — as well as giving the floor to Wilson’s ex-girlfriend, Ciara Miller, Batula’s soon-to-be ex-husband, Kyle Cooke, and the rest of the “Summer House” cast, all of whom seemed crushed by the new couple’s actions. I also asked Cohen about the rumor that Jennifer Lawrence had been the superfan who’d helped expose the person who’d leaked audio from the reunion, who was caught and subsequently fired. Cohen told me that he’d reveal who it was on the June 9 “WWHL” — and yes, it was indeed Lawrence! (You can see in the video our back-and-forth in which I tried and failed to get Cohen to reveal whether it was, in fact, JLaw.)

In the lightly edited transcript of the conversation below, Cohen talked about the guests he still wants for “Watch What Happens Live,” the origins of the glorious “Real Housewives of Rhode Island,” whether there could ever be a trans Housewife, why he and Anderson Cooper will be drinking beer on CNN on July 3 — and much more.

I just need to start with the “Summer House” reunion. You’ve done a masterful job. What was that like to navigate?

I would say that the “Summer House” reunion was Top 10 most tense reunions that we’ve had. This is a real group, and there was real emotional fallout among this group. This group is rocked and devastated, and it’s very real, and it was very emotional. I left, and I was truly spent — and I wasn’t in it. I was just directing the conversation.

You’ve done Pulitzer Prize-worthy work moderating, I think. What were you most surprised by during the taping?

Not the timeline — by the way, the timeline started to feel a little irrelevant; Ciara read all those texts. The story was the betrayal and the feelings, and how it affected the group. I guess that the headline was how visibly shaken a lot of them were: Jesse Solomon spent a good chunk of the last 25 minutes sitting there, kind of crying for real. He was very shaken. I guess it was the emotion that really stood out to me.

Andy Cohen, recipient of Variety’s Creative Impact in Television Award, and Vicki Gunvalson of “The Real Housewives of Orange County”

Courtesy of Getty Images for Newport Beach TV FEST

I own a “Carl’s a Mess T-shirt,” but maybe “Jesse’s a Mess” should be next. As most people here probably know, there were leaks from the reunion online. The leaker was caught and fired. But then a rumor started that Detective Jennifer Lawrence was the one who’d ID’d the perp.

I absolutely love this rumor. And by the way, I said, “Oh, we’re going to reveal the fan.” And then I forgot. So, watch Tuesday night’s “Watch What Happens Live.”

Why not here? We’re in a small room.

Because I’m doing it in my own space.

Well, was it Detective Jennifer Lawrence?

I flew out here today. Isn’t that enough, Kate? It was a Bravo superfan. I’ll tell you that.

Yes. I have two channels on Sirius.

Take me through your typical day. When do you have time to watch a cut of “The Real Housewives” and be a human being with two small kids?

I don’t have a typical day, which is one of the things I love about my life. But I’m up early with the kids. I’m usually up around 6-ish and get them both ready for school. I get to take both of them to school, which is the highlight of my day. And then I usually go to radio, and after radio, I either head down to “Watch What Happens Live,” or I head back home. I take my laptop with me, and I watch cuts. If I get in the cab after the radio, I can catch 30 minutes of Season 20 of “The Real Housewives of Orange County” on the way downtown. So I mean, it’s, literally, in my dressing room before shows, I watch. There’s no one time that I do anything.

But I will say I was a producer at CBS News for 10 years, and I am an incredibly deadline-oriented person. So if someone gives me a deadline and says, “You have to do this, write this, record this, whatever by this day,” then I will do it.

Do you ever get nervous before interviews anymore? Like, when there’s something huge like the “Summer House” reunion and there’s a ton of pressure — do you worry about it?

I don’t get nervous — before ”Summer House,” I felt the weight of it. I was leaning in. I was hyped up. I was energized. I went in and talked to Ciara, and then I went and talked to West and Amanda. I get nervous for them a little bit, because it’s intense, as you can ask any of the Housewives who are here. It’s intense being in a reunion, just if you had a normal season, but this was so elevated and intense.

I was very nervous when Oprah Winfrey was on “Watch What Happens Live,” because I respect her so much, and I was such a fan of hers. I didn’t want to get it wrong. Sometimes, if there’s a first-time “Watch What Happens Live” guest, it’s what energizes me. It’s what makes my endorphins go. Bette Midler was on recently for the first time — that was really exciting for me. So stuff like that is what really turns me on.

Beyond Oprah and Bette Midler, who have been some of your favorite guests over the years?

Joan Rivers was a favorite early guest, and she was very kind to me in the early years. I mean, look, I always love it when the Housewives are on. Obviously, they’re fun, but they are also so game. They’re so good at being on TV, like, for real. And when I watch “The Traitors,” I get so proud of the Bravo people on, because I’m like, Bravo people are just so good on television. They just are.

JLo is on on Monday. I just had David and Amy Sedaris on Thursday, last night, and it was so funny and great. Amy is one of my favorite guests. I love it when there is someone like a Jennifer Lawrence or Julia Roberts, who’s a huge Bravo fan. John Mayer, obviously, love.

Do you have any dream guests who still haven’t been on the show?

There are so many who haven’t done it, that we’re always kind of working on, but I’m so grateful —

Name ‘em.

Name ‘em! Gosh, I mean Madonna, Matt Damon. There are some big movie stars who’ve never done the show — Nicole Kidman’s never done it. We’ve gotten close.

Jennifer Pedranti, Shannon Storms Beador, Tamra Judge, Andy Cohen, recipient of Variety’s Creative Impact in Television Award, Vicki Gunvalson, Gina Kirschenheiter and Emily Simpson

Courtesy of Getty Images for Newport Beach TV FEST

“The Odyssey” is coming out — Matt Damon should come on. March marked 20 years since “The Real Housewives of Orange County” premiered. As I’ve often argued, especially when drinking, “The Real Housewives” is an incredibly important ongoing documentary project investigating the lives of American women.

I agree. It’s also a very feminist show. I will go to the mat saying that.

I agree. Back in March 2006, what were your hopes for it?

Well, there was a moment in 2005 where I was hoping that the show would be killed. It’s a famous story that we were shooting stuff, what we were getting back wasn’t what we heard we were filming, and it was becoming challenging.

I’m a big fan of soap operas, and what I hoped was that it would be like a soap opera. And one of the original things that I loved about the show was these were women who lived in a gated community. Their lives were very aspirational. They were, on the one hand, relatable. Vicki worked hard. She was a mom. She’s an insurance agent. But on the other hand, she had a grotto in her backyard, and she and Lauri were in their bikinis during their lunch break. And the way that they all talked to their very beautiful kids was different than the way I was raised in St. Louis, certainly. And it was just a different lifestyle.

It was the glossy idea that this could be a soap opera that really attracted me. And in Season 2 — and I hate to say, because it was something not pleasant that happened — but between seasons, we found out that Jeana Keough and her late husband, Matt, were splitting up. I remember feeling so many emotions about it, and I remember thinking, “Oh, my God, this is a soap opera — I can’t wait to see the women supporting Jeana. And will Jeana date? And what happened?” All the questions that you would have if a friend went through a significant moment in their life.

And now, here we are 20 years later, and I could speak for the next half-hour about Season 20 of “The Real Housewives of Orange County,” and how moved I am by it for so many reasons. And how engaged I am by it, and how proud I am of it, especially — how proud I am of the women who are here tonight, who are sharing incredible, intimate moments in their lives, each one super relatable, super important, I think.

And I think this is a season that really grounds this show and this franchise back to the early years, and why we began it. I’m proud that Vicki is back, and I love these women.

Courtesy of Getty Images for Newport Beach TV FEST

Do you remember when you realized this show, this franchise, has expanded way beyond what you could have ever imagined?

Well, first of all, Lauren Zalaznick changed the name. It was going to just be called “The Real Housewives,” then she changed it to “The Real Housewives of Orange County” in case we did it anywhere else. And I was like, “Well, that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever — like, we’re not doing this show anywhere else.” Here we are, 10 cities later.

But I think it was when we turned development for a show called “Manhattan Moms” into “The Real Housewives of New York.” When I tell you that my mind was so blown — I was like, “Wait a minute, we can do this in New York, and these women couldn’t be more different!” The New York women and the Orange County women were so different in the way they spoke and the way they lived. But they were women, and they were dealing with issues that weren’t so far apart, and it just worked.

You mentioned Vicki, and here we are in beautiful Newport Beach. You invited Vicki to rejoin the cast on stage at BravoCon: I was in the audience. I got chills. BravoCon has turned into such a delightful biennial event, and you’re very much at the center of it. What does BravoCon teach you about Bravo?

So much. It’s a lesson about fandom. I think Bravo is maybe, what, the last great television brand going right now. I don’t see 30,000 people schlepping on airplanes and saving their money to attend, you know, LifetimeCon or ABCCon. No disrespect! But I think it’s a testament to the Bravo brand. I think it’s a testament to the fandom. And I think, most importantly, it’s a testament to the men and women who are on Bravo who really just give it all for their shows. BravoCon is an incredibly emotional weekend for me, and I think for all of us at Bravo, and I think everyone who’s on Bravo.

Why do you think people feel so attached to Bravo?

Well, first of all, I think the shows are great. I think we really know what we’re doing. I think that the shows are produced really well. But again, it always comes down to the people on the shows, to me and the stories that they tell and that we tell.

And these are real people. People always say, “What are the Housewives like? Or what’s this person like?” And I say, “They’re exactly as you think they are.” Because they are. I think that’s part of the magic. And I think that people feel like they know me — and they do know me. I share everything on the radio and on the show, and so do the women. So it’s a very intimate relationship.

“The Real Housewives of Rhode Island,” which premiered in April, is the gift we deserve, I think, as we cling on for dear life in this news cycle. That cast is made of magic. Since it’s the first new “Housewives” show since “Real Housewives of Salt Lake City” premiered in 2020, what was it that made you all say, OK, it’s time for a new one?

You know, we are casting all the time. We have tentacles out in so many towns, and we say, “No, this isn’t it. This isn’t it. This isn’t it.” “Rhode Island” came along — Pamela Gimenez at Bravo, I got to give it up to her. I know some people from Rhode Island, and like, you do not fuck with these people. When Pamela said this, “I want to cast there, and it’s Italian American and this” — I just got so excited immediately. It seemed like, “Oh, this is a total no-brainer.” It had so many elements of what we’re always looking for: a strong regional identity, a surprising location, someplace that’s aspirational. I mean, Rhode Island in the summer, it’s beautiful. And then we saw the casting, and it’s like, they all know each other. It’s perfect! It’s lightning in a bottle.

Every episode is perfect. Do you worry with a show that’s been this great in its first season, about filming a second season when they become self-aware?

I do. Yes. But the great thing is, and it’s why Vicki, 20 years later, is still great on television — with everything that has happened to her in her life, and she actually is known around the world, as they all are, she still is very much herself. As they all are.

And so I do have very little doubt that these women will remain themselves. Will they zhuzh their faces? Will they start getting made up for scenes where Season 1 they didn’t? Probably. Would I like them just to put a little blush on and hit the street? Yes. But I know these women. They’re going to be fine in Season 2.

When is Season 2 starting to film?

I think this summer.

Vicki and I were whooping it up backstage, and she had a question, which is, “Andy, have you ever been to Orange County?”

I have. But the funny thing is, I’m so bummed that I never got to go to Vicki’s house that she sold. I always wanted to go there, I always wanted to go there, and I didn’t get to go.

And so the truth of the matter is I have, but I haven’t with the Housewives. And I haven’t, really.

Vicki, you have your answer! As we’ve seen in recent years, there are times when casts fight about things that happened off-camera that turn into gold, like Reality Von Tease on “Salt Lake City.” But then there are times when fights about things that happen off-camera can turn into a bit of a burden, as also happened on “Salt Lake City” with the plane fight.

Yes.

Is there anything that can be done about that? And as a producer, are you like, “Oh, my God, please stop fighting about things that happen on the internet?”

Yeah. The last season of “Orange County” was a good example. We got in the weeds about a lot of things that happened. Look, we used to never break the fourth wall. I remember a scene, I think in Season 2 or 3 of “Orange County,” where Gina, Lauri and maybe Vicki went to the convention center, and I think Lauri might’ve been appearing at the convention center, and I was like, “Wait, why is she appearing?” And they’re like, “Because she’s an Orange County Housewife.” I was like, “We don’t acknowledge that on the show.” Quaint times. Obviously, we do now.

So I think that we really want to tell the story of what is going on in the women’s lives and their kids and their marriages and their friendships, and not about what it’s like to be on “The Real Housewives of Orange County.” So I think we just try to redirect that better now.

Why didn’t anyone take out their phone on the plane?

I’m not surprised. Do you remember what happened the last time they took their phone out?

With Britani Bateman, yes.

Britani took it out in the van, and she was eaten alive! Of course they didn’t take it out. It didn’t seem like there was one moment that was like, “Oh, my God, take out your phone.” It sounded like from the reports that it was — anyway, the new season is great.

The soft reboot of “The Real Housewives of Atlanta” is fantastic.

Thank you! I like it that you call it a “soft reboot.” We were in growth mode and rebuilding mode for a few seasons. And I do feel like we got it back.

What went into the planning of that?

It just really took a lot of time to find the right women. We were trying different things that worked, didn’t work. Various things happened that were out of our control through the last few seasons. Look, last season, you had the addition of Angela Oakley, who I think is just an outstanding Atlanta Housewife. And you had Kelli, who was a great addition. Shamea, who we knew, who we had seen. We got Porsha back! It just clicked, but it was slow, and it was meticulous, and it was sometimes painful.

Was the “soft reboot” a strategy that you learned after “The Real Housewives of New York City” situation?

No, because “New York City” was a real reboot. This was just, we needed to strengthen the cast, I mean, so it was a gradual reboot. Took a few seasons.

Speaking of which, how’s the new “RHONY” season?

It’s outstanding. I’m excited because I think people’s expectations are low, which I’m thrilled by, because we totally exceed everything. Look, everyone accuses me of overhyping things. So all I will say is I’m very happy, and I can’t wait for you to see it.

And how’s “New Jersey”?

“New Jersey,” we just started filming, but it’s going great.

And Teresa and Melissa have actually made up.

They actually have, and I do believe it. You know, this happened months ago, and we decided not to film anything because, frankly, we’ve seen Melissa — and we’ve seen Joe and Teresa — make up before. We were like, “Great, if you’re going to do this, go do it!” And they lived in it for many months. I remember talking to Gia at BravoCon, and she looked in my eye, and she was telling me things that they had been doing as a family, and she was emotional about having her uncle back and her cousins back. And I was like, “OK, good. This is real.”

She should sing it!

Listen, the kids, as we know, as we know, the kids on the “Housewives,” they are the real truth-tellers.

I have to ask you about the next season of “The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills,” the show people hate so much that it’s Bravo’s most-watched series.

They hate it so much, it’s the No. 1 “Housewives.” What can I say?

Are you anticipating any cast changes? Because the rumors are rumoring.

What are the rumors?

There was something on one of the blogs that said Dorit’s on pause. Does anyone know?

The answer is that, like every season, we are casting. And I think that there will be some new additions.

Amanda Frances? Is she coming back?

We will see. Rihanna is petitioning hard for Amanda to stay. I was a fan of last season of “The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills,” what can I tell you?

Great reunion episodes. The Bravoverse is a largely forgiving community. I want to ask you about what you think is forgivable within the world and what isn’t. Starting with: Karen Huger was greeted with a standing ovation at BravoCon, right after she’d been released from prison for her fourth DUI. What did you make of that?

I think that on Bravo, as in life, we like to see happy endings for things. We see people fall, we build them. You build people up, they fall. You root against them, you root for them. That standing ovation — I think it was very dramatic when she came out. She came out wearing white.

A suffragette!

Yes. I mean, it was a real moment. So I think people also were just very caught up in the drama, and the camp of it as well. And for me, sitting down with Karen, look — look, I thought that that was the most real that Karen had been. We sat down for several hours in her home.

You did a great interview with her.

Thank you. I appreciate it. And I think you’ll see more next season of her owning her mistakes, and living in her sobriety. And she is a different person.

Well! A little bit. Was it an easy decision to bring them back?

I’ve always been a big Wendy fan.

She had her best season!

I know it’s so weird. She’s always been, I think, a great role model on that show, interestingly enough. She’s always led with her education. She’s always led with being a great mom. I loved seeing she and Gizelle have an unlikely friendship over the last year and a half. And it was definitely a conversation, and we’re filming now, and she’s in the midst of a legal procedure that will figure out where she’s going. And so yes, we made the decision to document that.

NeNe Leakes has committed no crimes, and you’ve talked about texting with her. We’re going to see her on “The Real Housewives Ultimate Girls Trip: Roaring 20th,” which premieres in August.

Yes, which is a true joy. I watched Episode 5 today on the plane, and it’s a joy.

Is there a road back for NeNe to Bravo beyond something like that special occasion?

I’ll tell you what I keep saying, which is we’ve worked so hard to get the Atlanta “Housewives” to a place that we feel so good about the cast. And I enjoy them kind of standing on their own right now. And so the answer is that we’re really kind of that’s where we are right now, and we’re focused on those women. We have the reunion in about a month, and we’ll see where we go after.

I’ve solicited some rapid-fire questions from fans of yours.

Great.

The first of which is in this vein. Michael from Los Angeles wants to know whether Jen Shah would ever be allowed back on “The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City.” And I will add, please say no.

I wish her the best. I don’t see her back on “Salt Lake City.” As we know, this is not solely my decision, but that’s what I would say.

Sarah from New York City asks, “There’s a bit of a code among Bravo creators known as ‘respect the villains.’ How do you consider the value of a Bravoleb eliciting big emotions from the audience versus someone who genuinely doesn’t fit in with their cast?”

Well, that’s a really good question. You just have to figure out — it’s that thing that I’ve talked about so much. Like, there are people who you love to hate. But do you love them, or do you just hate them? Do you love to hate them? And I think what winds up happening sometimes with people who are considered villains, sometimes they lean too much into it, and they wind up isolating themselves. They wind up getting lost in making a TV show, as opposed to the things we loved about them when they first joined the show. You know what I mean?

I totally know what you mean. Marisa from Queens asks: “Could there ever be a trans Housewife? And which franchise do you think would be the most likely to cast a trans Housewife on?”

I mean, I think if there was a trans Housewife who was friends with other Housewives, that would be the way. You wouldn’t want it to be a stunt — and you wouldn’t want it to be like, “Oh, let’s cast into this.” If someone were friends with that person, then that would be great. I have no idea what franchise that would be.

I’ve talked about this, but in an early season of “Jersey,” Caroline and Dina have a gay brother, and there was like a moment where we were flirting with the idea [of maybe casting him]. I mean, look, I think that in terms of casting a gay guy on the show, this is a show about women, and celebrating women so I think we leave it there.

“Ladies of London” does have a great gay man on the show —

Yes, and that was about a group of friends. Mark-Francis, he was so good on that show.

He’s great. Tasha from Santa Monica wonders: “From your perspective, who was more in love at the reunion — West and Amanda or Rachel and Tom?”

That’s a good question. I mean, look, you use the word “love” — who was more into each other? I don’t know. I mean, it seems like West and Amanda are trying to … figure this out?

They just seem miserable, though!

I don’t know what Rachel and Tom were doing at that point.

John from Los Angeles wonders: “What do you make of the ‘Housewives’ ripoffs, like E! doing the ‘RHONY’ one, and the Netflix MAGA show, ‘Members Only: Palm Beach?’”

I haven’t seen the Netflix one. And I think, look, in terms of the “RHONY” women, I mean, those are women that I love. And I have known forever, and so I’m just happy for them. I mean, that’s my feeling about that. If this is what they want to do, I think it’s great, and I’m happy for them. I’ll never root against them.

Gibson from Manhattan says: “Some people think that every Housewife should get two seasons to find their footing and prove themselves. What goes into the decision not to give someone a second chance to figure it out?”

That’s a good question. And there are so many times where we go into a reunion, and I start thinking, “Oh, well, this person is a one and done.” And then we do the reunion, and I’m like, “You know what? Wow! They really —” A lot of times I’m won over by the end of the very long day. Because it’s so hard being on the show, too. It’s so hard, especially as a newbie.

But I think it’s about how did they connect with the women? How did they connect with the audience? I mean, those are the two biggest factors.

And: Where do we go from here? What will it be next year if that person comes back?

Someone was yelling, “Amanda.” What’s happening with “Miami,” which is currently on pause?

I hope it comes back soon. I mean, if it was up to me — by the way, don’t hang your shit on me. It wasn’t my decision, OK? Call Frances Berwick on that one. I hope it comes back soon!

What’s the most revealing thing you’ve ever said about yourself on air? And was it when you recently admitted to liking cuck porn on “Watch What Happens Live”?

That was liberating! I loved that! I went in the control room after. I mean, listen, we’re there every night, you guys. I got to keep my camera guys entertained! I got to keep my control room entertained! I mean, the elevator ride out of the show every night is so fun, because it’s me and the camera guys and some of the producers. And so if they all get in smiling or laughing, I’m like, “OK. It’s great.” Yeah, that was Top 5.

I’m excited to see your and Anderson Cooper’s CNN Independence Eve Live on July 3.

I’m so excited about it. I’m really excited about this.

How drunk do you think you’ll get?

Well, we’re going to be drinking beer, America’s beverage. And I’m not sure if the Vanderbilt boy has ever had a beer! So I’m really excited to see that. And there is — if you don’t know — there’s a ball drop in Times Square on July 3, counting down to the 250th anniversary of the country.

And I’m so excited. We’re celebrating the best of America, this country that we all love so much, and it’s going to be really celebratory of the best of America. And I can’t wait. I was thrilled that they asked me, and I said yes immediately. A summer ball drop with Anderson celebrating America? That’s fun!

This interview has been edited and condensed.