[This story contains spoilers from the Cobra Kai series finale.]
When Cobra Kai completed its first roundhouse kick back in 2018, diehard fans of The Karate Kid movies of the ‘80s didn’t know what to expect.
Would this series be a nostalgic trip down memory lane of films that stood firmly on right and wrong for coming-of-age youths? Or would Cobra Kai simply be Karate Kid 2.0, with the children of then-hero Daniel LaRusso (Ralph Macchio) finding and fighting their way in strange social settings that felt unwelcoming?
Cobra Kai turned out to be all of that and more, as the final chapter of the Netflix series has showed. (The creators, meanwhile, have plans for spinoffs.)
For the movies’ original bad boy and archenemy to Daniel, Johnny Lawrence, played by William Zabka, Cobra Kai overall was a cautionary tale about the lifelong impact on a child if care and naturing is absent from a cherished parent or mentor. Ultimately, Cobra Kai was more about Johnny Lawrence finding his way back to self-belief, determination and turning one’s life around.
The Hollywood Reporter recently caught up with Zabka to discuss why the series was so centered on one traumatic incident in a parking lot more than 30 years ago, what redemption looks like in the universe of Cobra Kai now that the saga has ended and learning to forgive, especially yourself.
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From my various conversations with Cobra Kai creators Josh Heald, Jon Hurwitz and Hayden Schlossberg, they all said the main premise of this series was always about the redemption of Johnny Lawrence. Did you see it that way going in?
That’s a great question. Yes. I think their love for Johnny Lawrence, and the work I did in the ‘80s from some other films, too, I was always the heel. They called me for a meeting to pitch Cobra Kai and I had no idea what the pitch was about. They just said they had an idea for something that I might be interested in and they started with Johnny Lawrence, and I said okay.
They pitched it as a redemption story, but he would be rough around the edges and Johnny opens up Cobra Kai again. My initial response was, “Really? Why would he go back to Cobra Kai?” So they pitched it as a redemption arc, but I didn’t have a full, clear picture of what that would look like.
I was more concerned about how we stepped into it and where Johnny is today. I was very protective that he didn’t go down with the proverbial crane kick at the end of the show and become the biggest heel of all time. But they kept reassuring me with their words and whole hearts on how much they loved the character and loved my work, and that they were going to give him more of the Better Call Saul treatment. That he would be more of an antihero.
If it wasn’t based on The Karate Kid, they could still make the show, call it Bad Sensei and it would be similar to Bad Santa (laughs). So I was totally getting a picture of where they were going with those references. I love Josh. I worked with him on Hot Tub Time Machine, and I met Jon and Hayden on that set. They were all great friends and there’s just something about these guys. I’ve had other pitches, but never this way. Never where they were going to get the IP, and I didn’t realize they had Sony on board and everybody all signed off. We had our first meeting and my first reaction was, “well, you can’t just go do a Karate Kid movie and not make sure that everybody’s on board; we need to get Ralph [Macchio].” I walked away from that meeting very optimistic and hopeful. I had peace about it that something is right.
Ralph and I had a call the next day about another possible project. I texted him and I said, “We may have to hold off on that call; I know some guys are going to come meet you.” Ralph called me back and said, “Well, we need to put that on pause and look at this a little closer.” So, we stepped in it one foot at a time until that time. Overall, I felt like I was in really good hands with their affection for Johnny Lawrence and what they wanted to do with him. I didn’t know the micro of it, and there were no scripts at that point; it was just a pitch. It’s kind of like threading the needle on that, whichreally has not been done before. They took something that was nostalgic and beloved and family-oriented, and they brought it into today. It’s still the same thing, but it’s updated and rebooted for this generation. And that’s all them. Ralph and I say we were really smart to say yes.
Left to right: Griffin Santopietro as Anthony LaRusso, Ralph Macchio as Daniel LaRusso, Tanner Buchanan as Robby Keene, William Zabka as Johnny Lawrence, Xolo Maridueña as Miguel Diaz.
Curtis Bonds Baker/Netflix
What were the first signs or inklings that Cobra Kai would turn out to be the cultural phenomenon that it is? Did you know right away?
It was step by step. When it frist came out on YouTube, there was there was so many skeptics saying, “Oh, what are you doing with our Karate Kid.” Then there were the people cautiously keeping one eye open, that hopefully it was going to be good. The fans approached it the same way we did, which was one step at a time. But when it came out on YouTube with season one and the reviews came in, the fans jumped out of their seats. It was just very exciting. All of a sudden, we had something that was working. At least we knew we were going to get a season two, which I think they pulled the trigger on like a week after it came out.
They announced season two, and then we were on our feet and we did season three. We filmed it and were ready to release that, and then YouTube got it and said they didn’t want to do scripted content anymore. We had such great allies and advocates with Sony who said they’ll hold it there to give us a minute to shop this around and circle it back to Netflix. And Netflix jumped in. There was a moment where we were all sitting out in the middle of the ocean in our life jackets thinking, “Well, is this it or are we going to keep going?” And thankfully, Netflix came in and released seasons one and two for a global audience — that got everybody up to speed — and then they dropped season three and we went on.
So, the overnight of where this started was like it was an indie band, then a small off-Broadway show that suddenly gets its Broadway debut on Netflix and becomes the thing! It was great to get our feet at Netflix, creatively, to work out the kinks and find the magic that’s Cobra Kai. It’s so unique, and Netflix nurtured that and threw gasoline on the fire. Now, here we are, at the crescendo of season six.
When did you learn about the arc of how what happened between Johnny and his sensei, John Kreese (Martin Kove), more than 30 years ago, would still have such a major impact on your character’s life? [Kreese confronted Johnny in the parking lot with friends of 1986’s Karate Kid 2. Infuriated that he lost to Danny LaRusso and came in second place, Kreese breaks Johnny’s trophy and attacks him, choking him and assaulting his friends who try to save him. But Mr. Miyagi, played by the late Pat Morita, sees the violence and intervenes by attacking Kreese and ultimately making the sensei use his own anger against himself; Mr. Miyagi saves Johnny.]
Well, that is really what the whole show is about — mentors and teachers, who’s teaching you and who you are aligned with. Johnny was kind of dealt a bad hand. He didn’t have a father and bumped into John Kreese who taught him the way of Cobra Kai as he knew it, and then betrayed Jonny and tried to choke him out at the end of Karate Kid 2. That’s really the thorn in Johnny’s soul. His whole life, even 30 years later, when we pick him up and meet him again, that devastating loss, and not just the loss of the trophy, but losing his teacher, threw him into a downward spiral for all these years.
Then he bumps into Miguel Diaz (Xolo Mariduena) and gets to work himself out through this kid and find his life again. But throughout the whole show, the pain that he’s carrying is buried so deep with John Kreese. So, the full arc of John coming in and stealing his dojo out from under him at the end of season two; Johnny has to pivot and open up Eagle Fang Karate and he bounces around. He’s really a wandering, lost soul, but trying to make it work. He’s got a great heart; he just had these programs that were downloaded into him that he has to work out.
He does kind of find that through LaRusso and through Carmen (his girlfriend/wife played by Vanessa Rubio), through Miguel and through his son (Robbie played by Tanner Buchanan) and trying to better himself. But the pain in him is still John Kreese. So that moment in season six is when the little boy in Johnny, who was so betrayed, gets it somehow, because it’s all over. The tournaments are over and Daniel doesn’t want to fight in it anymore; there’s no fight left. That’s when Johnny gets it. He’s completely defeated and can open himself up. His guards and his weapons are down, and he turns into a little boy again and says the things that he’s been carrying all these years.
In meantime, John Kreese has been on his own redemption arc and is right there to meet him. They meet at the same time, having evolved to have this moment together that’s pure, as if it was John Kreese before Vietnam and Johnny Lawrence before the crane kick. They get to tell each other what they feel and come together. It’s very painful seeing the scene play out that way in the hallway.
When were done with that scene, we just felt like, “if this scene doesn’t happen and it doesn’t work, then the ending doesn’t work.” Because you have to believe that Johnny is going to pivot and go back into a Cobra Kai Gi and that Kreese is going to be on his side, which is what happens. I love the moment after that where Johnny comes out of the tunnel with Miguel and Tory and there’s Kreese in the stands. Johnny gives him a respectful bow; they worked all their kinks out. Johnny is free at that moment, and the father-son relationship has been healed to an extent, which allows him to go on and see his full redemption.
Zabka as Johnny Lawrence with Martin Kove as John Kreese.
Curtis Bonds Baker/Netflix
Where will Daniel and Johnny go in their friendship offscreen, in your opinion? Will they become best buds, or are they still too different?
(Laughs) I think somewhere down the line, they’re going to bump heads again. But for this moment right now, they’ve put all their differences aside. The whole arc of those two characters… they’re so far apart. I look at it like a triangle; they’re moving to the same end point, but they have different ways of getting there. Throughout the show, every time they bang heads and make up or come back together, they are a little bit closer to the top and a little bit more aligned. At the end, they’re fully aligned; so, I think they understand.
There’s a great episode in season one called ”Different but Same,” where they have their first car ride and are listening to REO Speedwagon, going to a bar and talking about ex-girlfriend Ali (Elisabeth Shue). You get little glimmers of how these two guys are really so much alike. Iron sharpens iron.
What’s next for you, William?
I’m just so thrilled with this right now, I’m not thinking about what comes next. I’m open to whatever comes. I’m just so excited that I got to play this character and grow as an actor and as producer on the show, too.
One of the highlights for me was getting to direct episode 12, “Rattled,” in the Part 3 final five episodes. Both Ralph and I wanted to direct, but we just didn’t feel like it was time yet because we were still gaining our trust with our other actors. We didn’t want to be directing them while we’re interacting with each other. But episode 12 is probably one of my favorite episodes ever! It’s just about the people and how they grow. To get to work with all these great beautiful people who all are a family now, and just tune up here and there was a really special full-circle moment. So, directing is in my future, as well as acting and producing. But right now, it’s all Cobra Kai. Never die!
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Cobra Kai is now streaming all seasons on Netflix.
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